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	<title>Comments on: Propaganda scuttles action in Copenhagen</title>
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		<title>By: Andrea Peloso</title>
		<link>http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-24044</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Peloso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 06:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/#comment-24044</guid>
		<description>A great comment.  I am continually inspired by Vandana Shiva who champions those living simply (but well, with creative control of their lives and work) as pioneers of a future without oil and increased global warming - not people who are owed the chance to repeat the mistakes of the past.

But as always, those who have made the mistakes are slowest to change, and totally responsible.  Any chance we have to slow or turn current patterns is evolution and survival - if even for a moment.

Revolution, it seems to me involves following the lead of those who, in Shiva&#039;s words:  &quot;have never had an oil addiction&quot;.  It also means stopping.  Continuing to stop, in any way possible our cultural illusion that things can continue.  It means refusing to listen to the same old justification and stories, refusing to participate in the illusion that we have time to position ourselves against science.

I was glad that Bolivia went ahead and invited people to another chance to meet before next year.  (Monbiot&#039;s predicted funeral for a climate treaty)

We must not lose the momentum, but make something of this moment.  There is no more time, there are no future chances.  We must seize the unity we have, not letting it dissipate, and continue.  

The illusion that we cannot do anything without the largest polluters is also a form of apathy.  We have run out of time for anything other than action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great comment.  I am continually inspired by Vandana Shiva who champions those living simply (but well, with creative control of their lives and work) as pioneers of a future without oil and increased global warming &#8211; not people who are owed the chance to repeat the mistakes of the past.</p>
<p>But as always, those who have made the mistakes are slowest to change, and totally responsible.  Any chance we have to slow or turn current patterns is evolution and survival &#8211; if even for a moment.</p>
<p>Revolution, it seems to me involves following the lead of those who, in Shiva&#8217;s words:  &#8220;have never had an oil addiction&#8221;.  It also means stopping.  Continuing to stop, in any way possible our cultural illusion that things can continue.  It means refusing to listen to the same old justification and stories, refusing to participate in the illusion that we have time to position ourselves against science.</p>
<p>I was glad that Bolivia went ahead and invited people to another chance to meet before next year.  (Monbiot&#8217;s predicted funeral for a climate treaty)</p>
<p>We must not lose the momentum, but make something of this moment.  There is no more time, there are no future chances.  We must seize the unity we have, not letting it dissipate, and continue.  </p>
<p>The illusion that we cannot do anything without the largest polluters is also a form of apathy.  We have run out of time for anything other than action.</p>
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		<title>By: James Hay</title>
		<link>http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-23615</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/#comment-23615</guid>
		<description>Rex, 

I have been following your blog for a while now via Greenpeace. Your interpretations on both Ecology and Spiritualism are insightful and compelling, and always lead to interesting discussions amongst friends. Many thanks.

I followed the information coming out of Copenhagen as much as I could. Borrowing and saving documents from such whistle blowing sites as Wikileaks (which has now been closed down to my horror.) The main issue that I found from the Summit was not conspiracy but  information saturation. The propaganda and self interest of each country involved ground the whole process to a halt. So many countries with relatively petty issues distracted from the main issues of the Summit, to find an acceptable worldwide agreement on climate change.

The information and issues that caused contention could have been easily discussed before hand between countries. Instead, many different nations brought these varied issues out during the summit, slowing and trivialising the entire process. I have seen this argued as an intentional stall tactic from internet based conspiracy theorists, who seem to jump from A-H without any of the explanation. For me it is more of an example of the ineptitude of current politicians or our political systems to solve any issue of importance.  Pre-released open source information would avoid the talks becoming bogged down in detail over various minor issues and given the world a forum to debate a solution rather than hogged by political elites and their stooges. We could have instead concentrated on setting and agreeing global goals and signing them. Setting a basic global manifesto and after discussing and debating the details. Instead the self-interest and past issues of countries became the focus, &quot;you took this then, so we are owed that now.&quot; This is not what climate summits are about.

I like your &quot;car salesman&quot; quote. If you analyse who was at the main meetings. So little science and scientists and so much politics. The entire thing is a farce with no real solution offered. I fear by the time the world sorts its politics out, the environment and it&#039;s issues will be long gone.

&quot;Politics will not solve climate change. Good science and revolution will.&quot; I cannot remember who said this but it was a quote that rung completely true with me. But as with anything in Global Politics something of tremendous disaster will have to happen before people really get around a table and talk of a real solution. 

By then it will be too late!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rex, </p>
<p>I have been following your blog for a while now via Greenpeace. Your interpretations on both Ecology and Spiritualism are insightful and compelling, and always lead to interesting discussions amongst friends. Many thanks.</p>
<p>I followed the information coming out of Copenhagen as much as I could. Borrowing and saving documents from such whistle blowing sites as Wikileaks (which has now been closed down to my horror.) The main issue that I found from the Summit was not conspiracy but  information saturation. The propaganda and self interest of each country involved ground the whole process to a halt. So many countries with relatively petty issues distracted from the main issues of the Summit, to find an acceptable worldwide agreement on climate change.</p>
<p>The information and issues that caused contention could have been easily discussed before hand between countries. Instead, many different nations brought these varied issues out during the summit, slowing and trivialising the entire process. I have seen this argued as an intentional stall tactic from internet based conspiracy theorists, who seem to jump from A-H without any of the explanation. For me it is more of an example of the ineptitude of current politicians or our political systems to solve any issue of importance.  Pre-released open source information would avoid the talks becoming bogged down in detail over various minor issues and given the world a forum to debate a solution rather than hogged by political elites and their stooges. We could have instead concentrated on setting and agreeing global goals and signing them. Setting a basic global manifesto and after discussing and debating the details. Instead the self-interest and past issues of countries became the focus, &#8220;you took this then, so we are owed that now.&#8221; This is not what climate summits are about.</p>
<p>I like your &#8220;car salesman&#8221; quote. If you analyse who was at the main meetings. So little science and scientists and so much politics. The entire thing is a farce with no real solution offered. I fear by the time the world sorts its politics out, the environment and it&#8217;s issues will be long gone.</p>
<p>&#8220;Politics will not solve climate change. Good science and revolution will.&#8221; I cannot remember who said this but it was a quote that rung completely true with me. But as with anything in Global Politics something of tremendous disaster will have to happen before people really get around a table and talk of a real solution. </p>
<p>By then it will be too late!</p>
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		<title>By: robert p. curtin</title>
		<link>http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-23542</link>
		<dc:creator>robert p. curtin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/#comment-23542</guid>
		<description>I am not going to worry about saving a civilization that cannot save itself. I will be running to the cool green hills and I will save my own ass thankyou!

&lt;strong&gt;Rex Weyler&lt;/strong&gt;: Good luck. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not going to worry about saving a civilization that cannot save itself. I will be running to the cool green hills and I will save my own ass thankyou!</p>
<p><strong>Rex Weyler</strong>: Good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Peloso</title>
		<link>http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-23042</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Peloso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/#comment-23042</guid>
		<description>Anyone worth reading on the failure in Copenhagen is currently writing their grief.  And with good reason.  It seems like anyone who actually cared about the climate was left behind the magic carpet of a treaty based on less than good air.

Yet, I am still impressed with how many of us overwhelmingly agree that more serious change must be made.  Its a good time to grieve - united.

It brings to mind the non violent movement of Estonia in which people essentially set up their own government before Russia had even stopped occupying Estonia.  People simply decided to democratically elect their own government regardless of what Russia was going to do.

I think we are at that point.  We need to unify, and sign our own treaty - keep moving the world in the direction that we must go.  It does not solve the crisis.  But it does give strength, vision, and the power to move forward. 

Naked power cannot offend global unity into oblivion.  The magic carpet is hovering, but we&#039;re still here with our feet planted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone worth reading on the failure in Copenhagen is currently writing their grief.  And with good reason.  It seems like anyone who actually cared about the climate was left behind the magic carpet of a treaty based on less than good air.</p>
<p>Yet, I am still impressed with how many of us overwhelmingly agree that more serious change must be made.  Its a good time to grieve &#8211; united.</p>
<p>It brings to mind the non violent movement of Estonia in which people essentially set up their own government before Russia had even stopped occupying Estonia.  People simply decided to democratically elect their own government regardless of what Russia was going to do.</p>
<p>I think we are at that point.  We need to unify, and sign our own treaty &#8211; keep moving the world in the direction that we must go.  It does not solve the crisis.  But it does give strength, vision, and the power to move forward. </p>
<p>Naked power cannot offend global unity into oblivion.  The magic carpet is hovering, but we&#8217;re still here with our feet planted.</p>
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		<title>By: Eldo Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-22704</link>
		<dc:creator>Eldo Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/#comment-22704</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m one of those who truthfully has to say, that the climate warming deniers are lying and that I don&#039;t know what can be done to make their lies be shown up for what they are.  The problem is that once runaway-warming really can no longer be stopped, and the worldwide devastation of our beautiful world has happened, it will be too late and the deniers will be dead.  Their offspring will be alive, however, and suffering with everyone else then alive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m one of those who truthfully has to say, that the climate warming deniers are lying and that I don&#8217;t know what can be done to make their lies be shown up for what they are.  The problem is that once runaway-warming really can no longer be stopped, and the worldwide devastation of our beautiful world has happened, it will be too late and the deniers will be dead.  Their offspring will be alive, however, and suffering with everyone else then alive.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Peloso</title>
		<link>http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-22623</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Peloso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/#comment-22623</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the excellent article.  The actions and propaganda of large corporations have caused all of us living in polluting nations to live and breathe destruction with each step that we take.  As we watch our country fail to take action and transition to renewable energy we also feel ourselves biting into tar sands, draining the earth  with every step we need to take requiring oil as our energy source.  It disturbs the very meaning out of existence knowing that we continue in a direction that our children, and neighbors in other countries cannot tread.  This is no life to live.

We are left asking ourselves: what can we do now?  

We must trace the lines of these companies and boycott them, we must speak out against the injustice, and learn from countries with a lighter footprint how to live such as Uruguay who can act as an example to us.  But also, we must address poverty in regions with a lighter footprint.  As much as possible, we must push forward with new solutions in our own communities.

We must get up, discredit the lies, and move forward.  You can&#039;t fool all the people all the time, and lies this grandiose cannot work twice.  Onwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the excellent article.  The actions and propaganda of large corporations have caused all of us living in polluting nations to live and breathe destruction with each step that we take.  As we watch our country fail to take action and transition to renewable energy we also feel ourselves biting into tar sands, draining the earth  with every step we need to take requiring oil as our energy source.  It disturbs the very meaning out of existence knowing that we continue in a direction that our children, and neighbors in other countries cannot tread.  This is no life to live.</p>
<p>We are left asking ourselves: what can we do now?  </p>
<p>We must trace the lines of these companies and boycott them, we must speak out against the injustice, and learn from countries with a lighter footprint how to live such as Uruguay who can act as an example to us.  But also, we must address poverty in regions with a lighter footprint.  As much as possible, we must push forward with new solutions in our own communities.</p>
<p>We must get up, discredit the lies, and move forward.  You can&#8217;t fool all the people all the time, and lies this grandiose cannot work twice.  Onwards.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-22420</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rexweyler.com/2009/12/02/propaganda-scuttles-hope-in-copenhagen/#comment-22420</guid>
		<description>Rex, 

I always hoped that our leaders would stand on the side of reason and science, and thus see clearly that change is needed immediatly. As usual, reality has proven me both wrong and näive... I always read your articles with great interest and concern... the only thing left for me to say is how can we help to counter this? I live in Uruguay, and being so far away form Copenhage sometimes all this seems far away... but nonetheless I see the problems around me everywhere... 
I sincerely do not know how to contribute to this crusade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rex, </p>
<p>I always hoped that our leaders would stand on the side of reason and science, and thus see clearly that change is needed immediatly. As usual, reality has proven me both wrong and näive&#8230; I always read your articles with great interest and concern&#8230; the only thing left for me to say is how can we help to counter this? I live in Uruguay, and being so far away form Copenhage sometimes all this seems far away&#8230; but nonetheless I see the problems around me everywhere&#8230;<br />
I sincerely do not know how to contribute to this crusade.</p>
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